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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1908
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why do we not need a warning? Because we already have safeties. But it's okay, let's continue sliding down that slippery slope. The game will be better, you guys!
Coming in 2014 to en EVE near you: dueling insurance. Just pay a PLEX, and any ships you lose in duels will be immediately respawned at the closest station. We'll have ladders and leaderboards and everything!
Oh, and of course, the war declaration mechanic will be removed entirely. Due to, uh, "code" stuff. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1909
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Charlie Jacobson wrote:18th century pistol duels often resulted in death. From infection though. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1910
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 22:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Private Pineapple wrote:You really are failing even at a strawman argument as nothing we have said imply anything you just said. So basically you are pulling these words out of your ass. We're pulling these words out of a decade-long experience with this game and the direction its development is heading in. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1911
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 22:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jayrendo Karr wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Private Pineapple wrote:You really are failing even at a strawman argument as nothing we have said imply anything you just said. So basically you are pulling these words out of your ass. We're pulling these words out of a decade-long experience with this game and the direction its development is heading in. Once you challenge someone, your fate is in their hands. There are warnings before you enter lowsec that say "hey you're entering losec, you can be killed. Do you wish to continue?" Why not with duels? Because reacting to a glove slap is somewhat different from crossing the street. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1912
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 23:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
"Direct hostilities." I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1912
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 23:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Beachura wrote:Stonkeep wrote:You can get podded anywhere and everywhere, its part of the game. Why should duels clarify this before the engagement ? You agreed to shoot and kill each other, this includes your pod as well. Okay kid, I'm going to teach you to read. The guy said that he thought there should be a confirmation; The duel invite is on the right click menu and appreciably easy to click by mistake. He is simply suggesting that a confirmation window appears to ask you that you're sure, just like the confirm button that you have to press when you disengage your safety settings. This seems fairly reasonable to me. "Would you like to [action]?" [Yes] [No] "Are you sure?" [Yes] [No] "Are you sure that you are sure?" [Yes] [No] "You might not be sure enough. You will be given time to make sure that you are sure. Initiating 24-hour action intention countdown timer." [Okay] I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1912
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 23:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Private Pineapple wrote:Strawman. CCP would never do such a thing LOL I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1912
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 00:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
I've said it before and I'll say it again here: CCP should just remove this whole pvp thing from the game to fix all of its problems in one fell swoop. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1912
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 07:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:And anybody whose played this game long enough knows not to accept the duel from the rookie ship. I'm not falling for that one.
I'm still lacking knowledge on RR alts in this mechanic. Well gee, luckily for you, you have access to the internet, and there is a plethora of information available in regards to aggression mechanics in EVE Online on it.
Andski wrote:Be glad that EVE is more PvP optional than ever as it is, stop asking for space battlegrounds You know that's going to happen anyway, right? They'll win in the end. They've been winning for the better part of a decade now. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1914
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 18:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:You know...every time I undock I get a duel request from some asshat. I keep declining them and haven't turned on my auto ignore yet. I figured I would try it. Now that I know that CCP herp derped and made it so that duel's destroy your **** when you lose, I won't.
A duel is something you do to test your skills on someone else. A duel should not incur a loss. If I want to kill someone in 1v1 PVP I will do it without asking their permission and with full consequence of Concord.
I am not going to go into why this duel system is a complete fail. I will just end with saying that it doesn't belong in EVE at all and should be removed entirely. "I like how EVE is this cold, harsh universe where anything might happen. It really appeals to me. In fact, I'm going to try some pvp. Not now, but soon. You know, someday. Right now I need to run this mission, so that I can make some ISK. When I make enough ISK, I'll try pvp. I probably don't have enough ISK to pvp right now, so I need to make more, in order to afford pvp ships. But for now, I don't have enough of it. I also don't have enough skill points. It's probably a good idea to have more skill points before you pvp. I don't know how many more, but definitely more. I'll probably know when I have enough skill points and ISK to pvp, and then I'll pvp. I will. I totally will, because pvp is fun, even though I never tried it. I'm just not going to be ready for it for a while.
Would be nice if CCP made an opt-out feature for pvp though, so that I could make ISK and train skill points without risking them needlessly so that I can pvp later." I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1916
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 20:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jayrendo Karr wrote:Is a pop-up saying Quote: "Are you sure you wish to challenge x to a duel? Your ship and pod will not be protected by concord. (Y/N) [ ] Do not show this message again."
really making the game into hello kitty online? It doesn't stop duels, it doesn't stop anyone from getting podded. It just means that you don't accidentally issue a duel to a cane, in your frigate. Let's say you go to a theme park, and it's Halloween or something. There's a bunch of haunted houses and everything, and it has this dark and scary atmosphere that gets you excited. But then you notice a whole bunch of neon-bright signs everywhere, saying stuff like "NONE OF THIS IS REAL" and "GHOSTS DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST." And before they let you enter a haunted house, they made you take a test and sign a form where you promise that you won't sue the park because you got possessed in one of their attractions. Would you like that?
It's kind of similar here. When I glove-slap a *****, I don't want to be given eight different reminders that, surprise, it might get me shot! I just want to flip a red switch, and if the other party does the same, I get to blast his ass without having my hand held and going through half an hour of bureaucracy.
Hell, in my opinion, CONCORD shouldn't be an automated response mechanic, but one in which the party being shot must send out a distress signal within some amount of time for them to come at all. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1916
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't get it, I really don't; what happened to reading game documentation before playing a game?
I mean, I remember buying new Nintendo games, and the first thing I always did was read the little booklet that was inside the box. How is this any different? Are people lazy? Do they really expect to enter a game like this and understand everything on their first day without doing any research? I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1916
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Then maybe you should ask CCP to write a game guide instead of adding more warnings and safeties to everything.
This game already has enough problems with people being too afraid to come out of their shells to actually play it. You put a warning on something and it's just gonna end up being something they think shouldn't be done. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1916
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
rswfire wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Then maybe you should ask CCP to write a game guide instead of adding more warnings and safeties to everything.
This game already has enough problems with people being too afraid to come out of their shells to actually play it. You put a warning on something and it's just gonna end up being something they think shouldn't be done. I'd argue the problem you speak of has nothing to do with warnings and safeties but with the player community's attitude toward new players. Those warnings and safeties are nothing more than a symptom of CCP trying to address the very problems you speak of. At least that's my point of view. It's an objectively wrong point of view because there have been studies (please for the love of God don't ask me to quote them) that prove that warnings, no matter how innocuous the subject matter, negatively affect peoples' perceptions in regard to what they warn about.
It's like making a "caution: spicy" sign near a tray of a particular food and then people just think "well, that sounds like it's gonna be quite spicy, so I won't get any" and they get something else instead, despite that particular food being something so good that most of them would've loved it anyway. It would've just been better to make a label saying "spicy food" than just calling it "food" and putting a warning next to it.
Same with "Hot Coffee" and "Coffee. CAUTION: HOT".
And it's the same in EVE; just having an action be called "limited engagement" (I do think that it should be called something else, like "direct hostilities" maybe) is better than having it called "duel" and then having fifty warnings attached for every possible contingency. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1916
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 23:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:long post So when is it time to actually "collect?" I mean, I've known people who played for three, four, even five years who never so much as targeted another human player with their ships.
Without having the proper experiences, you can't expect these players to graduate to a balanced form of play style at all. Most will simply continue doing the first few things they familiarized themselves with in their first few days in the game, or quit out of boredom. I can definitely say that I personally would've quit this piece of turd game if I didn't get eviscerated a couple of times during my first few days in it. Getting stomped gave me that motivation to become better; peacefully learning game mechanics one piece at a time would've never had the same effect.
Can you claim with any amount of objectivity that coddling new players would result in a greater player retention than throwing them to the wolves? I claim otherwise, because when the game was harsh in its first few years, it grew exponentially, and now that it's much safer, growth has effectively plateaued. Surely there must be more than a few hundred thousand people in the world who are interested in internet spaceships?
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Please forgive me. I come from the days when noobs were not instaganked at every gate camp by people pretending ship-raep was PVP. I've been here almost since the beginning and I can tell you for a fact that this has never been the case to begin with.
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:It would be kind of cool if noobs had a dueling starter mission where they had to duel another player in order to finish it. That would even get them started on PVP. This I completely agree with. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1916
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 00:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
rswfire wrote:So... I don't know when it's "time to collect" but hopefully most can agree that there should be a time "when not to." And to an extent that's fine, but you have to remember than the grand majority of the pvp element in this game, including hardcore griefers, don't "collect" on day-old players anyway. It's purely a myth that the second a day-old character undocks from a station, he will be hounded by anyone with a gun within a thousand-light year radius. Sure, you might still get killed when you are young, but most likely because you put yourself in a situation where your killer was obligated to do so (there's such a thing as spies, et cetera). Really, most pvpers, and even griefers, derive no joy or profit from killing Velators, and don't seek to do so. The ones who do quickly get bored and move on to other things.
Maybe people should stop being such massive cowards in video games. I'm no tough guy, but when I got shanked on my second day in a low-sec system I decided to explore, my reaction was "I'll get you for that, you bastard!" I didn't pick up my bags and go play Solitaire. Can contemporary gamers simply not make the distinction between what happens in reality, and what happens inside a game? Can they not understand that getting shot in a game that advertises shooting as its main selling point is not the end of the world for them?
If the situation with perception of reality is that bad, why are we still making violent games at all? Wouldn't "receive-a-medal" simulators be more appropriate? I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1916
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 00:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
rswfire wrote:People play video games as an escape from reality, as a general rule...to have fun, distract themselves, etc. People play MMOs to further add to the social element of their game play time. If they're trying to do something "carebearish" when they first start out, my general philosophy is "let them be." I'm not just referring to one-day-old characters. I think people like you have forgotten what it is like to be new. You start off with hardly anything, and to have it all taken from you after working so hard for it, well, that can cause you to lose enjoyment pretty quickly. Then these people are weak-minded, and should probably avoid competitive video games altogether. There are plenty of other options available for them, such as...I don't know...Angry Birds? If you see an ad for a "cold, harsh universe" and then immediately think "well, this seems like something I could spend some time on with grandma and Junior," then you should probably stay away from car mechanics and wall sockets. I can't imagine someone willingly plugging in Battlefield 3 and then bitching about getting plonked the second they load a map because they simply wanted to enjoy the scenery. How is EVE any different? I don't remember this game being billed as a mining simulator, with violence being a developer oversight to be fixed in a patch some time down the road.
rswfire wrote:Your post tells me you really don't know what you're talking about in relation to new players -- they are harassed, griefed, and bullied relentlessly. We must have widely differing definitions of "new players," then. Is a person who spent his first and only six years mining in a .9 system, who otherwise doesn't know about any pvp game mechanics at all because he steadfastly refuses to even read local, let alone game documentation, a new player?
I do kind of get where you're coming from with this, but you have to understand that the three-day rookie joining a player corporation and losing his Bantam to a war target isn't the focus of someone's griefing efforts; he's just collateral damage.
I've been a part of what players like you call the "griefing community" for a whole decade now and I have to tell you that not a single person out of the hundreds I've been in contact with derives enjoyment from killing rookie ships. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1916
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 00:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
rswfire wrote:I have alts in merc/pirate corps. I call BS. Okay, well, provide some proof.
Would you like to go into the 'merc contracts' channel and ask people inside whether or not they enjoy killing genuine day-old players in rookie ships? We can also go talk to some pirate corporations and ask them the same thing. I can put you in a chat with members of three different pirate alliances right this second if you want. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1916
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 00:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
rswfire wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:rswfire wrote:I have alts in merc/pirate corps. I call BS. Okay, well, provide some proof. Would you like to go into the 'merc contracts' channel and ask people inside whether or not they enjoy killing genuine day-old players in rookie ships? We can also go talk to some pirate corporations and ask them the same thing. I can put you in a chat with members of three different pirate alliances right this second if you want. Ha! Yeah. You're cute. I'm not talking about one-day old characters in rookie ships. Thought that was already clear? I'll define new for you: Characters less than a month old. Corps made up of newbs? Still feel the same way about killing them? (Of course not.) How do you distinguish between a genuine month-old player, and an alt of someone who's been playing for five years?
And corporations full of newbs shouldn't exist in the first place. Running a corporation entails being able to defend its interests. Can't defend your corporation? Don't run one. Join an existing corporation and learn the ropes first. I've obliteraed dozens of these idiotic newb hives before and feel no pity for them.
WoW doesn't let level 10 players raid 25-mans either. Progression is the natural order of MMO video games. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1918
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 01:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Surely the game would not do well being encumbered with warning dialogs every two seconds, but something should be done to make sure the new players have nobody else to blame but themselves. I think the integrity and reputation of not only the game but the player base is protected when measure are taken to make sure that those who do get blapped hard knew they had it coming and not for "failing to learn every little thing". For people to be willing to harvest kills from that does not reveal them to be anything beyond a douchebag. Ultimately I'm tired of having to defend this game (admittedly it's getting easier thanks to DUST and the epic backstory). This makes it sound like you're more in favor of proper documentation than warning messages, so I'm not entirely sure if our viewpoints are different on the matter. If you petition CCP to write a better manual/wiki, you can have my signature.
But one thing I will not support is a bunch of "pvp is badz dun do dat" messages popping out on the screen each time a player clicks a button. It sounds to me like you don't really want that either. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1919
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 01:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
rswfire wrote:Thus proving my point about you. I disagree. There's nothing wrong with a group of like-minded newbs getting together and starting their own thing together. It's often better than the alternatives. God knows I wish I'd never joined the first two corps I did with my two main characters. Both were stringent, requiring I follow a specific path in order to be part of their war machine. Sorry, not interested. If people want to get together and create something that appeals to them, why do you care? Why do you feel it is your job to "obliterate ... idiotic newb hives?" People tried that with mine. They failed, but we're an exception, not the rule. And we've created something we feel is pretty awesome and special. Anyway, I somehow got sucked into a wormhole with you and I'm going to escape from it now.  Why do I care? Because these people tend to fit expensive ships badly with even more expensive modules. And since their entire corporations are homogenous and made up of the same players, there is no educated central authority to guide these people away from making such terrible mistakes. And thus, these people end up paying for my subscriptions and Vindicators. Meanwhile, the well-run corporations that have some newbies in them are both more difficult to go after and less profitable to fight as well. Their newbies learn quicker, fly better, and stick around longer.
If you want to start a 30-man corporation with your week-old derpo friends, be my guest. Just don't complain when you start getting farmed like sheep a week into your endeavor. The onus is on you to make it work, not on us to make it hospitable for you to do so. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
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